SOLEDAD: I’M SOLEDAD O’BRIEN. WELCOME TO “MATTER OF FACT.” RIGHT NOW, THE U.S. BORDER PATROL IS HOLDING MORE 15,000 PEOPLE EVERY DAY, INCLUDING AN ESTIMATED 2,000 UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN. THE DETENTION CENTERS WHERE THEY’RE HELD HAVE BECOME NOTORIOUS FOR THEIR SQUALID CONDITIONS. TWO CENTERS MAKING HEADLINES ARE THE CLINT BORDER STATION IN WEST TEXAS AND THE URSULA STATION IN MCALLEN, TEXAS. LAWYERS AND DOCTORS WHO HAVE VISITED THESE TWO CENTERS SAY THEY’RE DANGEROUSLY OVERCROWDED. CHILDREN AREN’T GIVEN SOAP OR TOOTHBRUSHES. AND TODDLERS DON’T HAVE DIAPERS. DR. DOLLY LUCIO SEVIER, A PEDIATRICIAN IN BROWNSVILLE, TEXAS, VISITED THE URSULA EXAMINED 21 INFANTS AND CHILDREN. AFTERWARDS, SHE WROTE IN A MEDICAL DECLARATION THAT THE CONDITIONS THERE, QUOTE, “COULD BE COMPARED TO TORTURE FACILITIES.” DR. SEVIER JOINS US FROM HER OFFICE IN BROWNSVILLE. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. WE CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT. CAN YOU GIVE ME A LITTLE BACKGROUND? WHY DO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS GET CALLED IN? IS IT CONSISTENT? IS IT REGULAR? DO YOU VISIT ALL THE TIME? DR. SEVIER: I DON’T VISIT ALL THE TIME. I THINK THE ATTORNEYS FOR THE FLORES SETTLEMENT ARE OCCASIONALLY LOOKING FOR VOLUNTEERS TO COME IN AND MONITOR. EITHER THE ORR PLACES OR THE CBP PROCESSING FACILITIES. IT’S ACTUALLY FAIRLY INFREQUENT, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THAT THEY ALLOW PHYSICIANS ACCESS. THE REASON THAT I WAS ALLOWED ACCESS THIS TIME I WOULD CALL AN EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCE, WHICH WAS EARLIER IN THE WEEK, SEVERAL LAWYERS HAD BEEN TO THIS FACILITY AND THERE WERE A FEW INFANTS, INCLUDING A ONE-MONTH-OLD PREMATURE INFANT, THAT THEY THOUGHT WERE VERY ILL. OF COURSE, THESE ARE ATTORNEYS, BUT THEY DESCRIBED THAT INFANT AS LISTLESS, WHICH IS IN MEDIC TERMS IS SOMETHING PRETTY CLOSE TO IMPENDING DOOM. RIGHT? AND SO, THEY WANTED A PHYSICIAN IN BECAUSE THEY WERE CONCERNED THAT THIS CHILD NEEDED URGENT MEDICAL ATTENTION. AND THAT WAS ABOUT A TUESDAY OR WEDNESDAY. AND ACTUALLY, THAT CHILD AND A FEW OTHERS WERE TRANSFERRED TO THE NEONATAL INTENSIVE CARE UNIT BEFORE I ARRIVED. BUT THAT WAS THE REASON THAT THEY ALLOWED ME IN. AND IT WAS JUST LUCKY THAT I WAS ABLE TO SPEND MY FULL DAY THERE EXAMINING THESE CHILDREN SOLEDAD: SO YOU CAME IN AS AN OUTSIDE PHYSICIAN, WHO WORKS IN A CHILDREN’S CLINIC IN BROWNSVILLE, TO GIVE A MEDICAL ASSESSMENT. WHAT DID YOU FIND IN YOUR MEDICAL ASSESSMENT? DR. SEVIER: SO, WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR WERE SERIOUS MEDICAL PROBLEMS BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THE ATTORNEYS WERE WORRIED ABOUT. BUT WHAT I FOUND WAS, WHAT YOU’VE HEARD, WAS JUST SERIOUS LACK OF BASIC SANITATION. AND THROUGHOUT THE DAY, IT BECAME OBVIOUS THAT THERE WAS SERIOUS LACK OF JUST GIVING THESE PEOPLE SOME SPACE TO HAVE SOME DIGNITY. SOLEDAD: THAT SOUNDED TO ME, FROM YOUR REPORT, THAT WHAT WAS DISTURBING TO YOU WAS SORT OF THE LACK OF MEDICAL CARE IN THE FACILITY. TICK OFF FOR ME THE THINGS THAT YOU SAW AS A DOCTOR IN THE FACILITY THAT YOU FELT WERE JUST INAPPROPRIATE AND WRONG. DR. SEVIER: SO, THE THINGS THAT ARE CONCERNING TO ME. NUMBER ONE WAS, OF COURSE, THE LACK OF REAL SIGNIFICANT SLEEP. THE LIGHTS ARE ON 24 HOURS A DAY, WHICH WE’VE SAID, WHICH AGAIN, IF THIS IS A BORDER PROCESSING CENTER WHERE SOMEONE IS THERE FOR THREE DAYS, NOT A HUGE PROBLEM. YES, YOU WERE SLEEP DEPRIVED FOR THREE DAYS. THAT WAS KIND OF NOT A FUN EXPERIENCE, BUT I’M DONE. IF THIS IS A CENTER WHERE YOU WALK IN AND PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU THAT THEY’VE BEEN HERE FOR THREE WEEKS, AND FROM THE FIRST DAY YOU SEE WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IS LIKE, YOU START TO GO A LITTLE CRAZY IF YOU’RE IN A BUILDING WITHOUT WINDOWS FOR THREE WEEKS WITH THE LIGHTS ON. SO, THAT WAS NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO AND THREE IS WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT WITH THE HUMAN DIGNITY AND HUMAN DECENCY. THEY’RE NOT ALLOWED -- NOT NOT ALLOWED -- BUT THERE WAS NO TRUE ACCESS FOR HAND WASHING AND NO ACCESS FOR WASHING THEIR INFANTS' BOTTLES. IF YOU ARE A MOTHER, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS FEED AND CLOTHE YOUR INFANT. AND YOU’RE IN A SPACE WHERE YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO ADEQUATELY FEED AND CLOTHE YOUR INFANT. I CANNOT IMAGINE HOW DEMORALIZING IT IS TO HAVE TO FEED YOUR INFANT FROM A BOTTLE WITH DIRTY MILK. I MEAN, THIS BUILDING WAS DESIGNED TO HOLD HUMANS WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT OF THE WELL-BEING OF THOSE HUMANS, WHICH IS WHY I SAY IT’S AS IF THEY’RE HOLDING ANIMALS. SOLEDAD: LAWYERS FROM THE D.O.J. WERE ARGUING THAT HAVING SOAP IS NOT A REQUIREMENT UNDER FLORES, WHICH, AS YOU KNOW, IS ONE OF THOSE LEGAL DECISIONS THAT KIND OF SETS HOW YOU TREAT CHILDREN WHO ARE HELD WHEN THEY COME ACROSS A BORDER. I’M SURE THAT YOU SAW SOME OF THAT TESTIMONY. I'M CURIOUS YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU SAW THAT. DR. SEVIER: I MEAN, THE WORDS IN THE FLORES SETTLEMENT, I BELIEVE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE SAFE AND SANITARY. AND SHE WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS NOT. IN THAT TO ALLOW THEM ADEQUATE SLEEP, WHICH WE KNOW FROM STUDIES, AND WE KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT SLEEP DEPRIVATION IS SIGNIFICANTLY DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR BRAIN FUNCTIONING PERIOD. FORGET ABOUT HEALTH. AND IT’S ACTUALLY A FORM OF DESCRIBED TORTURE. AND I’M NOT SAYING THAT THEY WERE POKING THEM IN THE FOREHAND AND NOT ALLOWING THEM TO SLEEP, BUT A THIN MAT ON A FLOOR WITH BRIGHT LIGHTS. AND SO, THE TRAUMA IN THE MOTHERS IS JUST BY ALL OF THESE THINGS COMPOUNDED. YES, THEY ALREADY CAME TRAUMATIZED. BUT NOW, WE’RE TREATING THEM WITH EVERY FORM OF DISRESPECT. YOU CAN SHOWER ABOUT ONCE EVERY THREE WEEKS. YOU’RE INSIDE OF A FENCED CAGE, INSIDE OF A WINDOWLESS WAREHOUSE WITH 24-HOUR LIGHTS ON. YOU GET MINIMAL AND NOT NUTRITIOUS FOOD. YOU GET ALMOST ENOUGH WATER. YOU CAN’T WASH YOUR HANDS, AND YOU CAN’T WASH YOUR BOTTLES. AND EVERYONE IS SICK. AND OF COURSE, YOU DON’T WANT YOUR CHILD TO GET SICK. SOLEDAD: I GET ASKED ALL THE TIME, “SOLEDAD, YOU KNOW, IF I BUY DIAPERS, CAN I JUST DROP THEM OFF? HOW ABOUT IF I SEND FORMULA, C I SEND, YOU KNOW, SLATS OF WATER TO PEOPLE?” AND WE’VE HEARD, OF COURSE, THAT THOSE THINGS IN FACT, YOU KNOW, " “DON’T BOTHER.” DID YOU ASK THEM WHY THEY’RE TURNING DOWN SOME OF THESE SUPPLIES? AND WHAT DO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT A DOCTOR WHO, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP OUT IN SOME CAPACITY, WHAT DO PEOPLE DO? DR. SEVIER: WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO TO HELP. SO, THE LAWYERS FOR THE FLORES AGREEMENT ARE THE CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL LAW, I BELIEVE. I MEAN, IF YOU GOOGLE THIS, IT’S PRETTY EASY TO FIND. BUT THEY HAVE A LONG LIST OF VOLUNTEERS. AND IF PEOPLE ARE REALLY WILLING, THEY CAN SIGN UP, GIVE, YOU KNOW, SPANISH -- YOU CAN SIGN UP TO INTERPRET. IF YOU’RE AN ATTORNEY, YOU CAN SIGN UP TO DO SOME OF THESE VISITS. IF YOU’RE A PHYSICIAN, YOU CAN GET ON THEIR LIST. AND THEN, THE NEXT THING, OF COURSE, IS JUST BE ACTIVE AND BE VOCAL AND SHOW UP WHEREVER YOU SHOW UP WITH COMPASSION AND DEFENDING THESE PEOPLE, WHETHER IT’S IN CONVERSATIONS WITH FRIENDS THAT MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS OR WHETHER IT’S TO YOUR LAWMAKERS. BUT I THINK JUST KEEPING IT OUT THERE AND KEEPING IT VOCAL AND NOT MAKING THIS A SILENT, SECRET WAREHOUSE IN TEXAS. BUT EVERYONE KNOWING THE WAY THAT WE’RE TREATING PEOPLE AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT OK. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR POLITICS ARE. AND BACK TO THE SOAP AND THE HAND WASHING. I’VE SAID BEFORE, AND IT’S TRUE, YOU DON’T HAVE TO CARE OR BELIEVE THAT THESE PEOPLE NEED OUR HELP. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW IT’S GOING TO COST OUR COUNTRY MORE TO PAY FOR THOSE E.R. VISITS AND PAY FOR THOSE HOSPITAL VISITS. AND SADLY, PAY FOR THOSE LIVES THAT ARE LOST IN THIS CENTER WITH CROWDING THAN TO JUST GIVE THEM SOME SOAP TO PREVENT INFECTION SPREAD TO BEGIN WITH. THE REASON THEY HAVE AN INFLUENZA OUTBREAK IS ENTIRELY BY THEIR MAKING. IF THEY’RE NOT ALLOWING THESE PEOPLE SOON. SOLEDAD: DR. SEVIER, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANKS FOR TALKING WITH US. AND IF YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO BACK INTO ANOTHER FACILITY, OF COURSE, WE’D LOVE TO FOLLOW UP WITH YOU AND SEE IF SOME OF THE EXTERNAL PRESSURE THAT I THINK IS COMING IS MAKING A DIFFERENCE TO BRING SORT OF THE BASIC NECESSITIES TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING DETAINED AND H