THE COSBY SHOW
After the NBC sitcom’s star was accused of sexual assault by more than 60 women, we couldn’t look at a Cosby sweater, much less a Cosby episode. Not that they were easy to find then, anyway, since reruns were yanked years before the disgraced TV legend was finally found guilty on three counts in 2018.
Totally disagree with Smallville being on here.
Whatever issues Allison Mack had off-screen, they were off-set. You could watch the series from start to finish and not know what was really going on. Unlike the Cosby Show, she’s not the namesake/moral figurehead either.
Agree. I saw the headline and my immediate response was: I heartily disagree. My “heartily” versus your “totally”, but we’re on the same page. Smallville is in no way tarnished by actions taken by Mack years after the show ended.
Might be just me, but I tried watching the show and couldn’t separate the character from knowing what eventually became of the actress. That and 10 seasons just felt overwhelming.
Yap this! I know the actress and character are not the same but just couldn’t enjoy it the way I used to before.
It might be because you watched the show after knowing everything that happened with Allison Mack and what she did.
Amen and if you have watched any interviews with Welling and Rosenbaum they didn’t get it either, but they also were obviously not close to AM at all. Even Kruek has said that she was invited and tapped out after a couple of meetings and that was long before things got bad.
So, I’m still loving Smallville.
However, I DO agree that Smollet killed a show that I loved.
You can watch certain shows without it tainting, I disagree about Roseanne. I can watch the early shows without really being bothered because it was years before Barr went insane. And Glee, if you like the other characters. I never cared for Puck anyways, minus for a few situations. So, I can watch the show without it tainting the memories. It is just too eerie that Glee did an exact storyline with Puck and he did not seem to get the message that it was wrong. But I like the other characters.
Respectfully disagree about Roseanne. It’s been well documented for years that Roseanne Barr had created a toxic work environment and would treat writers very badly, assigning them numbers in order of importance
No one is saying she was a saint back then. But it does not get in the way of the enjoyment of the show unlike her later rants.
I totally understand what you are saying and agree.
maybe Bull?
I know it’s tantamount to blasphemy on the internet, but as much as I liked Buffy and Angel I never put them on the pedestal that so many people did, and IMO Whedon was found out to be a bit of a one trick pony with Avengers: Age of Ultron, never mind the car crash that was Justice League.
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The Cosby Show is probably the biggest fall from grace of all though, I remember not long after the allegations surfaced watching an old Eddie Murphy stand-up clip about how Cosby called him up and lectured him for doing adult comedy and using bad language, and apparently did that to several others including Richard Pryor.
Ridiculous
Cosby convictions were OVERTURNED
….NOT GUILTY…..HES NOT IN JAIL – NOR WILL BE
You’re wrong. Cosby’s conviction wasn’t overturned due to him being innocent. It was overturned because he was promised by a previous DA that he wouldn’t be prosecuted over the victims allegations, so Cosby went in and testified in the civil trial and said all the stuff he did. The next DA then charged Cosby because he said he wasn’t bound by the same agreement. Cosby got off on a technicality
He basically got off with it all cos someone didn’t filed or date something properly. Jimmy Saville had his original case thrown out by CPS in UK for something similar and years later…here we are
A former DA cut him a sweetheart deal in which he could say what he did and not be prosecuted…..so he not only talked about it, he openly admitted everything. He was released because the deal was found to be valid. That’s all. He is not innocent by any means.
The man literally admitted to his crimes. Why are you still defending him?
Yeah, I find that when it is an actor that was the problem I can’t watch without thinking about the issue (Tom Cruise is similar in movies), but when it is someone off screen like Whedon I can watch and enjoy what the actors produce on screen.
Buffy/Angel isn’t tarnished at all . . . yes, I believe things got out of hand, but it was a different era of making television. These shows were made on a shoestring and a prayer and a very tight turnaround, and that means tons of stress, long hours, and sometimes you had to “whip” your young cast, who’re easily distracted by stardom, into doing their jobs. It’s not hard to understand how the leap from “making sure the trains run on time” to “toxic work environment” can happen with the person involved never taking a step back to see that the leap has indeed happened, when he just never has time to take that step back and think about it. It’s not an excuse, but I do find it forgivable.
To fire a woman because she got pregnant? The fact that multiple women refuse to, or back up CC says it all. Joss has the ego of the greatest man ever born, but he’s not.
Angel was tarnished when the character of Cordelia was sabotaged on screen and now it seems it was deliberate ans spiteful. I can never watch it again without feeling disgusted.
Exactly. When Joss trashed Cordelia, I was over the show. It was clearly bad storytelling, so I figured there were other reasons for him doing that. Once CC started sharing her experience, it all made sense.
I binged Angel for the first time a couple of years ago before Joss’s behavior on the show was shared (at least beyond rumors) and the treatment of Cordelia was baffling to me, even then. You just knew something happened behind the scenes. The change between the season 3 finale and season 4 premiere is jarring, her storyline was so insulting and it was such awful writing.
I don’t know if tight deadlines call for you to force your female employees to have sex with you. You can claim that it helped Joss deal with stress, but all of that time Joss spent forcing female employees to have sex with him could have been spent making the scripts better, which would have let the writers go home earlier and get some sleep.
Joss was clearly an abusive boss who created a toxic work environment but no one is saying that he forced women to have sex with him. Not all Hollywood abuse is sexual…he did enough damage to condemn him without making thing up.
I feel like you are being very dismissive of what Whedon has done, and how long he got away with it. If you read any of the detailed reports from the many, many people he treated badly I cannot fathom how you are arriving at “forgivable”.
I have no problem continuing to watch episodes of BTVS and Angel. Joss Whedon was not solely responsible for the success of the shows. A lot of people put their hearts and souls into these shows and produced something wonderful. I feel the same way about Smallville. I didn’t think I could ever watch it and separate Mack from her character, but I only see Chloe when I watch the show. Hers was definitely the biggest scandal, but the actors who played Pete and Mr. Kent have also gotten themselves in legal trouble. However, just like on Buffy, a lot of the main actors are still close friends to this day.
I think Cosby and Louie are probably the only 2 shows where actors behavior impact the marketability/ watchability of the show. A lot of these scandals are not as well known. In all honesty when I watch Cosby I don’t associate the younger dark haired Heathcliff with the older greyed Bill that was splashed all over the news. A lot of times i have moments of clarity of how great the show actually was qnd i was too young to appreciate. Looking at the guest stars, music and art as an adult makes me go wow.
I do have a few cringe moments when I watch 7th Heaven and Ruthie sits on her dad’s lap or kisses him. I don’t remember a lot of coverage of his scandal but I do remember that he in the pictures shown he still looked like Rev. Camden.
As for Joss Whedon, he doesn’t think he has done anything wrong. Even as he says he hasn’t done anything wrong he is admitting to wrong. I agree with cruachan above tha Age of Ultron and Justice League are among is wrong. How do you mess up Justice League? In addition to all of the written material there are several successful highly enjoyable critically loved cartoon versions to just replicate and phone it in Call of the day. That’s just like the crazy people who can’t get past the second X-Men movie keep different sized going. Follow the cartoons! Sorry that’s a tangent for different thread
I think Keven Spacey made his shows unwatchable as well.
Try watching the docuseries We Have To Talk About Cosby (which is really hard to watch) and I guarantee you will differently about the younger Heathcliff. Guarantee!
It was incredibly interesting. Looking back you see where he really didn’t hide a lot of preferences, that came later as he eventually became “Americas Dad” And he was far more menacing than anyone ever would have thought. Like the other men in Hollywood who had money and power, he knew it and wielded it like a bat to control everyone around him.
I tend to separate the art from the artist. I was an English major, and it’s kind of what we’re trained to do. Hemingway, Faulkner, T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound… everyone’s a jerk. But that doesn’t mean their work isn’t great and influential.
I admit I was a Whedon fanboy — but even though I think he’s menace, I can’t help but still love his characters and his worlds. For all his many, many faults, the guy knows how to write a TV show. The fact that he’s a jerk doesn’t make his work less enjoyable for me (although I do feel guilty about that, if I’m honest)
I think the biggest exception to what I just said are things like the Cosby Show and 7th Heaven… the “family” aspect and those actors/characters being role models and interacting with children so much… I just can’t watch that (not that either were really on my watchlist).
So yeah, I do tend to disagree. We can still enjoy these works in spite of the tarnished reputations of creators and actors.
Just my opinion, though. I totally understand why folks would have a problem watching this stuff now.
I’m an English professor at an Ivy and feel like this is not a particularly accurate read of “what we do” as a discipline, but that shouldn’t stand in the way of your enjoyment of some TV shows you like of course. But for the record: it’s not so much a question of acknowledging that Hemingway or Pound were jerks (which obviously they were!) but doing the hard but important work of figuring out how and why their works might be participating in and reinforcing oppressive structures. Like Pound was clearly embracing and reproducing fascist values of certain kinds. Hemingway’s misogyny isn’t just an off screen feature of his life but an important part of his style and what drives his novels. That in itself doesn’t mean at all that we shouldn’t read their works. You can read these works and even love them for what they do, but also be attentive to the ways in which they articulate their values. It’s not an either or; we can hold several thoughts about a work in our heads at once. But I think TV shows are slightly different, depending on the situation and context: when it comes to for example still showing reruns of Cosby on TV that would mean continuing to financially reward Cosby for example. I’m genuinely not sure if that means we shouldn’t let the TV show be shown anymore – but it seems like a slightly different conversation than about dead authors?
If you are what you say you are, you know that there are some schools of thought that argue “the work is the work, it is sovereign, what matters is it’s effect after release” and another school of thought that’s all about analyzing the work in the context of the author, what he was experiencing when he wrote it, and what he intended it to say. My personal feelings on the subject are, the latter might be interesting, but not important. Art doesn’t belong to the artist anymore once it’s put out to the public. What matters is what the public makes of it.
For once Charmed is missing from a list that I’m okay with, but ol Brad Kern has had quite a few complaints between atleast 2 shows that he has ran.
I honestly don’t let personal scandals keep me from watching any shows. I don’t agree on his action but I still watch the Cosby Show today, not gonna throw away my 8 season box set I paid my money for years ago. And honestly It will always be my favorite show of all time.
Plus what about all the other people involved in the shows that had nothing to do with anything who won’t make money off the show from syndication or sales because of the actions of one.
the legacy of Smallville was not ruined by what happened with Allison Mack. Smallville was, is, and will always be loved by its loyal fanbase and NOTHING can or will change that
Glee not only had to deal w MSs criminal pedo charges leading to his suicide but w CMs accidental OD a few yrs prior & then NRs horrific death in the River years later. That’s 3 major Glee actors that died within a decade (& we’re discussing very young actors to boot). Basically, in order to be able to watch the show (& I just recently said this in a separate comment) I put up a Chinese Wall in my head to separate the actors from the characters. Bc the thing is, having put so much time & resources into watching the show for 6 yrs straight, I refuse for the show to become dead to me, so to speak. Maybe if I didn’t care so much while watching it or if it hadn’t meant as much to me at the time, it wouldn’t matter, but it absolutely WAS that important & I not only watched the series, I read 100s of fanfics, saw numerous videos, and spoke out on a bunch of forum boards, some still active to this day.
It’s difficult to explain why the show was so important, it just was. But considering that I feel pedophiles to be worse than many murderers, you might get a sense of just how important & the strength I use to keep up that wall so that watching the show is still possible, enjoyable and fun.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Angel, One Tree Hill, Smallville and Gossip Girl mean so much to me. Their legacy never end for me. When I watch them, I focus on the characters and the stories; not who the actors really are or their producers. The evil done by a few people should not waste the hard work. Mark is the last thing on my mind while watching One Tree Hill. Tree Hill is my home. I never liked Chloe in Smallville anyway. Nothing changed. Angel and Buffy, on the other hand, are so cultic for me that I can’t imagine their names being tarnished. I don’t care who Joss is when I can focus on an example like Buffy, who proved the power of women at a time when women were not so strong. I opened my eyes and saw them first. They are in my heart. As for Ed I liked Chuck; Not Ed. I look at the character, not the actor.
Chuck sexually assaulted Jenny in the beginning of season 1
When I watch them, I focus on the characters and the stories; not who the actors really are or their producers. The evil done by a few people should not waste the hard work. Mark is the last thing on my mind while watching One Tree Hill. Tree Hill is my home. I never liked Chloe in Smallville anyway. Nothing changed. Angel and Buffy, on the other hand, are so cultic for me that I can’t imagine their names being tarnished. I don’t care who Joss is when I can focus on an example like Buffy, who proved the power of women at a time when women were not so strong. I opened my eyes and saw them first. They are in my heart. As for Ed I liked Chuck; Not Ed. I look at the character, not the actor.
Ed Westwick was acquitted of any wrong doing/criminal accusations so I don’t think it’s that hard to watch Gossip Girl.
I was looking for a comment about that
I can’t stomach glee anymore Mark tainted it. But even outside of that. The tragedy of losing Naya and Corey makes it too sad.
My sister and I rewatched it in 2019 and my heart got heavier and heavier as we got closer to the Quarterback.
It is sad due to Cory. Although I can celebrate his performances, and the cast trying to make it through. Naya died later so it does not really get in the way of enjoying it.
Ridiculous Article!!!!
Some of what you say may actually be truth……HOWEVER, a LARGE PORTION IS INUENDO – OR UNPROVEN
—– consequently, GOSSIP
How dare you???????
BTW – re: Bill Cosby — CONVICTION OVERTURNED—- HES NOT IN JAIL
UNBELIEVABLE that you would spread malicious, UNPROVEN Gossip purporting to be the truth
He wasn’t found innocent. He was released due to a legal technicality.
You can repeat your comment as many times as you like but it has been established multiple times the reason he is free has nothing to do with him being innocent. Also, if you care to read a comprehensive article look for one in “New York” magazine where multiple women narrated their experiences. He drugged and sexually assaulted dozens of women.
I can’t believe you would publish such an article!
90% of this is rumors and gossip and even then you are bunching together serial rapists and sex offenders with people who misbehaved on a movie/tv set.
Then again this is 2022…..
I think of all the shows mentioned, The Goldbergs has suffered the most. Some of the scandals mentioned happened after the shows were no longer on the air except for repeats. Some were not known by most viewers while the shows were in production. Shows that chose to fire Roseanne, Jeffrey Tambor and Kevin Spacey owned up to the losses and wrote the characters out. By working around Garlin and trying to pretend he’s there when he’s not, they are only hurting themselves. They aren’t fooling anyone. I realize it’s a comedy and they already had to address one death this season, but Garlin either needs to be replaced or his character needs to go. Bewitched replaced Darren successfully years ago. Either just pretend no one notices the difference or make a joke out of his changed appearance. It couldn’t be any worse than what they are doing now.
Must’ve been a slow tv news day to make this list. I don’t view any of these series as tainted, there’s never a requirement to agree with the ethics or morals of an actor to enjoy a character they portray. It’s unfortunate so many people conflate the actors for the characters. The excuse of “I don’t want to support X” is silly, there are hundreds to thousands of individuals involved in creating a series, and their contributions matter.
There are certain exceptions but I agree. You can enjoy the show and take it in because of the whole show, and not because of one person.
Could be just me, but thankfully I can separate the show/the characters I love with the drama behind the scenes. I can totally understand that it’s hard for some people though!
I noticed that Paul Reubens wasn’t included on the list. When Pee Wee was discovered pleasuring himself in a theater, it ended his show and his movies and his career has never quite been the same. Yet, he still shows up occasionally on TV (most recently in disguise on ABC’s “To Tell The Truth.”)
I’m guessing it may be because his offense didn’t really hurt anyone beyond his own reputation.
Yeah I disagree. I still enjoy The Cosby Show, Empire and Roseanne. It’s funny how some things are tainted and some aren’t. Many still rave about Rosemary’s Baby and Roman Polanski is a pedophile. And don’t get me started on Alfred Hitchcock and his torment and predatory behavior towards Tippi Hendron
Actually, I wrote above about being able to watch Glee (which is true) but I haven’t been able to rewatch the Cosby show since that scandal broke. And I recall LOVING that show! And I haven’t watched a Woody Allen film since he got together w what (in my mind) still feels like his daughter/stepdaughter from the age of 10 (12?) & possibly/probably sexually assaulted his actual daughter. And I can definitively state I adored his films.
The only guy wherein I might make an exception (and I don’t have a reason as to why – which just makes it weird) is Mel Gibson’s Ransom (which I cannot find anywhere, so it’s more of a theoretical statement). Maybe bc I saw Ransom many more times than I had watched the full panoply of Woody Allen’s works, & I was willing to not watch any other MG films. And as a Jewish female, you’d think I’d want nothing to do w him or his art but there you go. I guess ppl aren’t perfect. And in the scheme of life, while I find what he DID say and do repulsive, it didn’t rise to the level of rape or pedophilia.
But considering that there’s clear cut evidence in the prosecutors office that Roman Polanski got a 13 year old girl drunk and then slept w her, leading to his flight out of the United States, I find any and all actors, etc. who continue to fight for him or wish to work w him beyond revolting and wonder how they can look at themselves in the mirror at night. Or if they have children, how they can look at their children and not realize that given the opportunity, RP would just as easily have slept w them. What’s wrong w those ppl??!!
I was a huge Cosby fan, and finding out what he did was a massive shock to me. He tarnished what was a groundbreaking life and career. Now I still love Fat Albert, but it is disappointing to have a great show tainted with his history. How you want to deal with this type of situation is entirely up to you.
The Jussie Smollett thing is still going. he is guilty and will never admit it. He has made a mockery of the judical system in Chicago. He had all the big Liberals including the President and first lady coming to his defense. He played the victim at his sentencing, then a week later he’s out of jail. He walked out like he was a very important person, he had bodyguards. This whole charade will go on for another 2 years. I think they should add another week in jail, for every week he’s out. I hope he is finished acting.
Jussie is no different than the other celebrities who got off or merely received a slap on the wrist for breaking the law. If the judge hadn’t lectured for 30 minutes before pronouncing the sentence—his lawyers would not have grounds to do this. The judge was out of line and made a case for prejudice.
The question remains can and should you separate the art from the artist? I have enjoyed music and literature from artists who I later learned did some very bad things. I found a way to draw the line and I have again here in the series listed above that I enjoy. Some cannot and I respect that.
One can, of course, do so, but for example, happening to love old movies and musicals, I was much happier NOT knowing that Bing Crosby abused his children and was a horrific father. Like I said, I’m still capable of enjoying his films w Bob Hope or (one of my personal favorites) Holiday Inn w Fred Astaire, but now there’s always either a thought in the back of my mind OR I’m having to put in the effort to keep it out of my mind for the time the movie rolls. It’s true that occasionally ignorance can be bliss.